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TOPIC
Flutamide's Side Effects
Summary
of Flutamide related posts in the forum
flutamide works
From:
Date: 12 Nov 2000
Time: 14:37:43
Remote Name: 24.43.13.90
Comments
this is the stuff that maneless took that
grew all his hair back but made him really sick so he had to
stop. I think he took it orally. Ithink he said it didnt
absorb in a topical formula but I think he also said RU58841
is the same as flutamide but it absorbs topically. but if
this stuff absorbs topically it should be the exact same as
RU58841 hopefully at a fraction of the cost. but howw do we
get access? do we have to wait for clinical trials? hey
maneless can you help us out? is this the cure? 150 hairs
per cm2 thats normal density. what do ya think
Re: Flutamide .. thats some serious stuff ! -
TO BUZZARD
From: maneless
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 18:57:06
Remote Name: 64.12.105.181
Comments
Buzzard, I think these guys might have something. If
someone has invented a vehicle that will allow flutamide into
the skin without getting into the body then that would mean
that flutamide can be put into a topical form that would be
tantamount to RU58841. It wouldn't be the same molecule as
RU58841, but it would do exactly the same thing: negate
"ALL" androgen in the skin of the scalp without
getting into the body. This is perfect Buzzard. It's what we
want. It's just like RU58841. We need the Gel. We need to be
able to get the Gel because the flutamide is already
available.
Buzzard this looks good to me. If it's
legitimate and if we can get the Gel. We have to mix it up
exactly the same as the Israeli doctor did. There can't be
any deviation except that I would personally want a slightly
higher dose of the flutamide, but everything else has to be
EXACTLY the same as the Israeli doctor formulated it -
EXACTLY.
Flutamide and immunological disorder
From: Zipper
Date: 13 Nov 2000
Time: 20:23:48
Remote Name: 129.74.176.168
Comments
Can anyone tell me whether "scid" mice have a
human-like immune system or no immune system at all? Since it
seems that AA is in part an auto-immune problem, Sintov's
results may not apply directly to AA.
Also, do you know, Pavlo, whether the skin graft was from a
man with androgenic alopecia? If so, was this a case where
follicles that had long been dormant were revived into
producing terminal hair?
Don't forget, guys, that miniaturized, but not yet vellus,
hairs go through the anagen phase. The important thing to do
is to convert miniaturized hairs into terminal, not just get
telogen or catagen hairs into anagen.
-Zipper
Dr. Proctor on Flutamide
From: Zipper
Date: 14 Nov 2000
Time: 11:53:11
Remote Name: 129.74.162.59
Comments
I posted a question to the infamous Dr. Proctor about how
to get flutamide through the skin on alt.baldspot. He
responded that flutamide penetrates the skin easily on its
own, and that is the problem with applying it topically. It
absorbs too well and causes systemic effects.
He said that an experiment with topical flutamide was done
several years ago on women, and that its findings might be
available in the Archives of Dermatology (anyone know what
that is and how to access it?).
He also pasted some research that seemed to show that
topically applied flutamide caused systemic effects in
hamsters. Hamsters are, however, a lot smaller than humans.
Isn't it possible that flutamide won't migrate as far in
significant concentrations in humans?
In any case, it's worth a shot for those of us nearing
desperation. I don't think its effects are irreversible
(indeed, if you do experience systemic effects, when you stop
using the stuff you'll experience a glorious hyperandrogenic
reflex - not good for the hair, but great for the libido).
-Zipper
Great news with Flutamide!!!
From: tk421
Date: 15 Nov 2000
Time: 19:49:34
Remote Name: 132.206.197.127
Comments
Guys, things are moving FAST!!!
I have found Dr Sintov's tel number on his university's
website. There is alos a mention of his research experience.
This guy is an expert at increasing the life of a medication,
as well as in REDUCING ITS TOXICITY. Go over there and read it
for youself. There have been NO CHANGES IN SYSTEMIC T OR HT
LEVELS FTER USING HIS GEL. In other words, it's safe.
If this thing works for us as well as it did for maneless,
we're in for a treat. Maneless, are you reading this? Tell us
what you think. We must find out if the gel mentionned in the
patent is the same as the one he is using now.
We have to get this thing FAST.
Re: to maneless - I AM ANSWERING
From: maneless
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 19:30:39
Remote Name: 64.12.105.181
Comments
The only thing wrong with flutamide is that it gets into
the body applied topically. It looks the gel that this Israeli
doctor has solved that problem. We need that gel. Oral
flutamide grew a full head of hair on me but since it got into
my body (taken orally) I had side affects so I had to get off
of it. If this gel can get the flutamide into our follicles
without the flutamide getting into our bodies - WOW! A bunch
of hair with no side affects. It would be the same as RU58841.
WOW!
Re: Side effects from oral Flutamide
From: maneless
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 06:43:55
Remote Name: 205.188.200.42
Comments
The side effects were kind of embaressing, but here goes:
I was developing pain/lumps (the lumps were one lump in
each side of my chest) in my chest, and you should know what
that means - gynocomastia was developing. I could not get a
functional erection and I could not ejaculate. I had
absolutely no energy. The last couple days you would have
thought I was a very ill person because I couldn't find the
energy to get out of bed, but I didn't feel bad like a sick
person does; I just had no energy at all.
If I had stayed on the flutamide another few weeks I
would've seen actual breasts. I had already lost the ability
to get an erection, and I already couldn't ejaculate. I don't
know how much more energy I could've lost because I already
felt like my energy was completely depleted. I was having to
drag myself out of bed.
We need this Israelis doctors gel so we can use the
flutamide topically without the flutamide getting into the
body.
Re: Side effects from oral Flutamide
From: maneless
Date: 20 Nov 2000
Time: 11:46:01
Remote Name: 152.163.204.9
Comments
They were lumps right under the nipples man. I don't know
for sure they would've gotten any bigger but I do not want to
take flutamide again unless I'm sure it's not gonna get into
my body. I want it in the follicles but not in my body.
The hair was like a crew cut coming in over my whole head.
It looked like it looked when I was 16. It had the right color
and each strand looked like that thick hair I had before I
started losing hair. It was the good hair - the stuff you
want.
But I was starting to grow tits man, and I do not want tits
on me.
BTW the inability to have sex and the loss of energy feel
worse than you would imagine.
BTW#2 I think the hair that was coming in fell out within a
few days of me getting off the oral flutamide.
It was every last strand, and it was the kind of hair you
want and it was coming in fastly, and when I got off the
flutamide it vanished fastly. The lumps/pain in my chest
stopped and I got my energy back and I went back to being
bald.
Making a Flutamide Formula - espec. to tk421 or JB
From: Uno
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 05:33:05
Remote Name: 62.180.198.130
Comments
Although this flutamide gel thing sounds good to me I have
two questions (not meaning to put anybody down because believe
me I am as impatiently as everybody else on this forum
awaiting any REAL solution - other than Minoxidil or Proscar -
that brings us back our hair): 1) How do you expect to get
PURE flutamide ? Because crushing the tablets means you have
250mg per tablet mixed with other things (like maybe cellulose
or similar stuff) that might irritate your skin or even do
harm when absorbed. I haven't read Sintov's Gel patent yet but
I guess it describes a formula mixed with a certain
percentage/weight of flutamide. If now you put into your gel
formula:
250mg Flut PLUS an unknown amount (say 500mg or maybe even
more) of "filling stuff" that was used to form a
tablet you may not get a gel but a hard stuff. But maybe I
have missed some discussion here (though I usually read almost
every post) where you have either described a way to get the
pure Flutamide out of the crushed pills or you may have found
a source (be it a drug company on the internet or maybe your
doctor, tk421) to get the pure flutamide from.
2) As I said I haven't read Sintov's patent yet and read
just the abstract of his studies on pubmed where nothing is
said about systemic effects or the exclusion of them. However
if you go to pubmed (that is: yahoo, type in pubmed, choose
pubmed and then search for "topical and flutamide")
you will find another study back from 1995 that clearly
mentions remarkable systemic effects both with TOPICAL
flutamide and finasteride. Please let me know what you think
of this or if maybe Sintov excludes sytemic effects with his
formula. Thank you Cheers Uno
P.S. I try to give you the direct link to the second study,
don't know if it works though: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=
Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7594643&dopt=Abstract.
If it doesn't work, go to pub med, do the
search as described and look for the 5th result, it is by
Chen C., Puy LA, et allii: Local and systemic reduction by
topical finasteride or flutamide of hamster flamk organ size
and enzyme activity
Re: Making a Flutamide Formula - espec. to tk421 or JB
From: tk421
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 12:40:51
Remote Name: 132.216.80.8
Comments
That is the idea behind the gel that Sintov invented. It
avoids systemic effect and enables deeper penetration of the
flutamide in the skin. There is no way you will regrow hair
without the gel, because the flutamide will not stay in place,
and diffuse through your body.
FLUTAMIDE WILL GROW A FULL HEAD OF..............
From: tk421
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 13:05:26
Remote Name: 132.216.80.8
Comments
........vellus hairs???????
Look at the graphs carefully. They clearly indicate that
the lenght of the hairs is about 1.5 micron. This is REALLY
small. Note that the finasteride grows 100 hairs/cm2. How can
topical finasteride grow more hair than oral finasteride?
Well, by lenghtening the life of the drug in the skin, it will
surely be more effective. But that doesn't explain how
finasteride can grow 100 hairs/cm2! This is most probably
because we are talking about vellus hairs, not terminal hairs.
So is flutamide another disapointment?
No, for the following reasons. First of all, flutamide can
grow vellus hairs on a shiny bald patient, so it seems. This
is spectacular in itself, and COULD POTENTIALLY IMPROVE THE
MAX DENSITY THAT CAN BE OBTAINED THRU HM!! A lot of people
have reported that HM does not work on shiny bald areas. well,
with flutamide this could no longer be a problem. But why
would Sintov deposit a patent to grow vellus hairs?
I knew it!! He didn't reveal the REAL formula. Read the
patent carefully. It states clearly that the two solutions
described are just examples, not the final solutions! Note
that the concentration of flutamide in the solution is only
1%, much less than the maximum 10%. This is not the real McKoy.
It seems like Sintov made some bogus solutions just to get
some results, get the patent, as a way of securing the rights
to an invention which is not yet finalized. Remember that
there was a mention of a solution containing a mixture of
flutamide and finasteride.
We know that flutamide has the potential of regrowing our
lost hair. Just look at maneless. Still, I think that we will
have no choice but to cooperate with Dr Sintov as to find the
way to increase the concentration of flutamide in the gel, so
we can grow more than vellus hairs. Also, the patent mentions
the addition of a penetration enhancer. Does anybody know if
it is included in the list of ingredients of the two
solutions?
This will be tricky. Still, I suggest that we first stick
to the first solution as it is described in the patent, and
see what we can get from that. It shouldn't be hard to cook.
Still, we will need some pure flutamide. Where do we get that?
We have to do this scientifically. I am afraid that some
folks out there will try to make their own solutions, or even
swallow the pill, like maneless did. Let's all be patient and
take the positive and scientific route. Only time will tell if
we can really grow terminal hairs with the formulation that we
already know. Take care,
tk421
Re: FLUTAMIDE WILL GROW A FULL HEAD OF..............
From: James Bond
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 17:14:51
Remote Name: 63.10.229.215
Comments
In addition to the above post I should add that an average
human hair is about 20 microns in width. In the patent, the
hairs that were grown were well over 30 microns in diameter
(unless I am misinterpreting the symbol used). This goes along
with what Pavlo said about full thick hair.
JB
Re: FLUTAMIDE WILL GROW A FULL HEAD OF..............
From: tk421
Date: 20 Nov 2000
Time: 07:55:54
Remote Name: 132.216.80.76
Comments
Thanks for the clarification, James Bond. So this will
regrow real hairs after all. You seam quite knowledgeable
about patent jargon. You are a major asset to this forum, JB.
So let's try this preffered formulation. Keep on gathering
info. Right now I'm stuck with big finals for the next 3
weeks, so I can't do much.
This could very well be it.
Contact Dr. Sintov II
From: Pavlo
Date: 20 Nov 2000
Time: 11:36:11
Remote Name: 62.0.72.214
Comments
Hi Today i have contact Dr. Sintov again i gave him tjhe
office phone number of mr. yoram titz which is the israeli
number 1 expert (not jokking) in money raising.I have also
spoken to titz yesterday and told himanout Sintov he was very
intersted but wanted to hear things from Sintov himself,I have
agreed to speak with sintov next week. As for your questions
the mice body didnt reject the human grafts since the mice
thAT are used doesnt have immune system,so they are used to
preform such kind of experiments i know about an expirement
regarding skin aging that was performed by sintovs associate
Dr. Gilhar which was performed in the same technique. The
disadvantage of these mice is that they should kept isolated
cause lack of immune system renders the volnerable to
infactions even though they dont live more than afew months
,this maybe answers the second question i belive that the hair
grew after not more than 2 months (can be much less) but i
will ask sintov this question next week. As for making the gel
in private this gel can be toxic and anyone who will use it on
his own can suffer avery severe side effects . I am trying to
move things forward and to help sintov build a stsrt up that
will perform trhe neccessary experiments and will bring this
gel to th market (if it is workin ASAP) Bye
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