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TOPIC
Flutamide - MAKING FLUTAMIDE

Summary of Flutamide related posts in the forum

Re: flutamide works

From: So the Vehicle is the key to effectiveness cos topical finasteride grows a lot of hair with his lotion !!
Date: 12 Nov 2000
Time: 14:53:20
Remote Name: 212.1.133.21

Comments

re flutamide works

From:
Date: 12 Nov 2000
Time: 15:30:49
Remote Name: 24.43.13.90

Comments

Flutamide – making it ourselves

From: making it ourselves
Date: 12 Nov 2000
Time: 21:44:44
Remote Name: 205.188.196.24

Comments

Re: flutamide – making it ourselves

From: william
Date: 12 Nov 2000
Time: 23:02:05
Remote Name: 202.123.135.192

Comments

Re: flutamide – making it ourselves

From: Christian
Date: 13 Nov 2000
Time: 14:26:28
Remote Name: 146.83.29.173

Comments

Re: flutamide – making it ourselves

From:
Date: 13 Nov 2000
Time: 15:19:59
Remote Name: 208.246.218.22

Comments

If someone could find out how often the Flutamide was applied as well as at what concentration and of course the bigger question, how long did it take before results were seen???

How about mixing the Flutamide in a Dermovan Cream or possibly make a solution of Dermovan and Minoxidil. Crush up the Flutamide pour it into the minox bottle shake it up and then add in some dermovan cream until it is a consistent solution.

Also does anyone know if it would be better to use a DMSO solution instead, does flutamide react with DMSO.

Re: flutamide gel/androgel

From: Fred
Date: 13 Nov 2000
Time: 19:58:48
Remote Name: 24.7.6.140

Comments

I am not interested in waiting for this Dr. Sintov to complete his studies. That will be four to five years before a product comes to market.

We should try and figure out a guerialla method to try this stuff out. Sintov will become the Gho of Flutamide. By the time he is ready, Gho will be long out.

We need an interim solution. Flutamide is available now. KGF may be a hoax or too expensive. I am tired of being at the mercy of others.

THis may or may not work. But why not try?

Dr. Lee may come through. Otherwise we need a chemist. I am not one but the methods of skin penetration for assorted topicals must be a rich field.

We need a chemist or doc who might experiment. I do not think there is any patent infringements or illegalities for using the drug for a different use than approve for, esp. if administered by a doc.

We should try to find a way.

Fred

Flutamide Gel already exists!  It could be VERY easy to get

From: tk421
Date: 13 Nov 2000
Time: 22:10:29
Remote Name: 132.206.200.79

Comments

Look at this. I found it on yahoo! http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb-dgps/therapeut/zfiles/english/noc/1996/pre96et.txt ... Vaginal antibacterial preparation ----- Brand Name ... Comments: GEL (30 mg ... Ingredient: Flutamide Comments ... http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb-dgps/therapeut/zfiles/english/noc/1996/pre96et.txt

They won't mention the brand name. Can you picture us rubbing vaginal medication on our heads? Funny stuff. The poitn is, there is a flutamide gel available for the ladies. If the concentration is too low, we can always add a bit more. We could also add finasteride. The problem is that I can't get the link to work. If any woman is reading this, please share anything you may know about yeats infections! For once we are interested about it!

We HAVE to get that gel thing working soon. There is no way I'm waiting for human trials. Let's fight this, guys!

Where to get Flutamide and let's find out who's going to try it and track progress

From:
Date: 14 Nov 2000
Time: 07:23:41
Remote Name: 208.246.218.22

Comments

I purchased the 20 pills of 250mg Flutamide from www.hairdrugs.com for $34.

Before I use any of it I want to wait and see what if any consensus there is for a gel of topical penetrator.

So far I am thinking about DMSO diluted with a little water. Crushing up the tabs into minox as per a couple of articles. Somehow incorporating a Dermovan cream into the minox and Flutamide solution. Adding some DMSO to the minox and Flutamide solution to enhance penetrtion.

Well that's some choices for now, let me know your thoughts.

also if we could track the people who are going to try this that would be beneficial to all. I am only planning on doing two small sections of my head as a trial spot. I am in the process of trying some other enhancers on other parts and want to do a good comparison. Let's get it started.

Re: Where to get Flutamide and let's find out who's going to try ...

From: Christian
Date: 14 Nov 2000
Time: 10:40:18
Remote Name: 146.83.29.143

Comments

Be carefull with DMSO!!! i tried it once at a concentration of 50% which i believe it`s the minimum to obtain skin penetration but it burned like hell! it is not a viable option, trust me. In my country i have no restrictions to buy all that drugs so i have experimented a lot. Flutamide was effective but it caused me diarrea. That`s why i think that a topical formulation would be effective but not in minoxidil. The key is to obtain the gel that let flutamide penetrate the skin.

We need to get that PATENT

From: tk421
Date: 16 Nov 2000
Time: 18:02:21
Remote Name: 132.206.197.114

Comments

We must do everything in our power to GET THAT PATENT! If it is anything as descriptive as Sintov's other patent, then we can have this thing made. We MUST find the patent soon. Then I will contact my derm and get it done by a specialized pharmacist. Anyone who is good at searching patents must start working now!

I am NOT letting this ffly by me. I'll be the first person to try it once I have it in my hands. Let's keep up the fight.

Flutamide added to Minoxidal???????

From:
Date: 16 Nov 2000
Time: 20:51:18
Remote Name: 205.188.197.33

Comments

Re: Flutamide added to Minoxidal???????

From: James Bond
Date: 16 Nov 2000
Time: 21:33:03
Remote Name: 206.133.237.2

Comments

The gel itself is somewhat stimulatory to hair growth. Its main benefit however is that it keeps the flutamide in the skin and in contact with the hair follicle as opposed to a typical alcohol based vehicle that allows the flutamide into the bloodstream and therefore a lower level of flutamide in the skin. Flutamide doesn't screw with women very much but is bad news for a man to put in his bloodstream.

In other words the gel targets the follicle and without it a lot of the flutamide goes straight through the skin and into the bloodstream where it interacts with the rest of the body.

Perhaps Pavlo can be of some help in obtaining the patent details. I will find the application again and post a link to it from this site.

If one does a search on pubmed he will find numerous studies on flutamide and hair growth.

JB

Flutamide Gel Formula Revealed!

From: James Bond
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 00:00:27
Remote Name: 63.10.229.3

Comments

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/bnsviewer?CY=wo&LG=en&DB=EPD&PN
=9962464&ID=WO+++9962464A1+I+

Re: Dr.Sintov's patent text

From: James Bond
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 15:00:29
Remote Name: 63.10.223.158

Comments

If you go to the WIPO homepage and search for Sintov you will get the full 17 pages that detail the exact formulas that he used and give enough information to experiment with your own.

The catch is you have to register to do a WIPO search (only takes a couple of minutes). It is best to just print the whole 17 pages out instead of viewing them in Acrobat.

There is a flutamide formula that is given that uses Methocel E15. I recommend using the Methocel E15 premium grade as opposed to the Ethocel 100 (as used in the finesteride formula). Methocel mimics natural plant gums and is well tolerated by the body. I don't believe that Ethocel is metablolized well by the body if it enters the blood stream (it is basically plastic). It (premium grade) does seem to be fairly benign when taken orally but I don't suggest that anyone injects or absorbs it through the skin. Probably the reason Sintov uses it though is because it is not easily absorbable through the skin into the bloodstream and it holds the finesteride into the skin for a very long time, where it works on the follicle continuously. Still, the thought of plastic skin is a turn off.

Methocel E15 and Ethocel 100 are used as thickening agents (gel if you will) that form a film. Methocel is water soluble and a much more natural molecule.

For anyone that is interested, Aracel 186 is a mixture of glycerol oleate and propylene glycol. It is used as a surfactant(solubilizes water in oil). It is used frequently in the cosmetic industry (for instance typical hair dressing and grooming products that are formulated with oil in water emulsions).

I think the most interesting aspect of this delivery vehicle would be to try different combinations of drug formulas and experiment with the synergistic effects.

In conclusion if you use the exact formula that is detailed for the flutamide you can't go wrong. From there you can experiment with drug dosages. I think the best thing to do is to make up the vehicle separately and just add your own drugs as you go.

If you are wondering about obtaining the chemicals, call your local supplier and check on the availability. I am not sure of the regulations where these two are concerned. I believe DOW manufactures both though.

another Flutamide composition

From: Paul
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 05:25:58
Remote Name: 212.49.235.129

Comments

FLUTAMIDE PREPARATION AND ITS PRODUCTION Veröffentlichungsnr. (Sek.) JP11005735 Veröffentlichungsdatum : 1999-01-12 Erfinder : HAMADA TETSUNOBU; YAHIRO TOMIO Anmelder :: NIPPON KAYAKU CO LTD Originalnummer : JP11005735 Anmeldenummer : JP19980105954 19980416 Prioritätsnummer : IPC Klassification : A61K31/165 ; A61J3/02 ; A61K9/20 EC Klassification : Korrespondierende Patentschriften

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zusammenfassung --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To obtain the subject preparation showing the same effects as those of flutamide even with a low content of flutamide, by a method for pharmaceutically preparing flutamide as a powdered mixture flutamide, an excipient and/or a dissolution auxiliary ground together. SOLUTION: This preparation is obtained by granulating a ground mixture which comprises (A) about 15-50 wt.% of flutamide in the preparation, (B) about 50-85 wt.% of an excipient [a saccharide, a starch, a cellulose (preferably crystal cellulose or mannitol)] and/or (C) preferably about 0.01-50 wt.% of a dissolution auxiliary such as sodium lauryl sulfate and optionally an additive required for pharmaceutical preparation and is ground together and has >=50% of elution amount of flutamide in the preparation after 30 minutes from the start of examination when the elution examination is carried out by Elution Examination Second Test, Japanese Pharmacopoeia 13th revision (the number of revolutions of a paddle; 50 revolutions/minute, test solution; 1% aqueous solution of sodium lauryl sulfate, 900 mL).

Making a Flutamide Formula

From:
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 06:49:02
Remote Name: 208.246.218.22

Comments

Ok so we have an idea about the concentration of Flutamide to carrier, the problem is I am not scientific enough to figure it out. For the Scientists in the group how should we be mixing the 250mg tablets of Flutamide to a topical carrier? Also I have contacted Community Drug and asked them about Topical Gels and here is what they said: We often use a pertcutaneous absorption enhancing formulation called PLO gel for transdermal formulations. Technically it is a gel, but it looks more like a cream. PLO stands for pleuronic-lecithin organogel, and it's mechanism is to form highly lipid soluble miscelles (bubbles) around the drug molecules.

We do have it available at $19.00/30 grams, with discounts on larger quantities. I would think that it would be difficult to make a transdermal formulation on your own, though as maximum absorption is obtained when particle size is the smallest. This requires the use of much sheer force (milling machine).

Another option is VanPen base. This cream is also used an absorption enhancer and is cosmetically a nicer product. Cost is $24.00 for 30 grams.

Please let me know if you need further information. Best regards, Aaron Kozol, RPh MTTS www.communitydrug.com

Re: Making a Flutamide Formula

From: James Bond
Date: 18 Nov 2000
Time: 15:41:12
Remote Name: 63.10.223.158

Comments

I think it it best to stick with the exact formulation that was used in the experiment. The Community Drug products have been formulated for different purposes (i.e. maximum absorption as opposed to retaining flutamide in the skin).

I would attempt to get the ingredients and make this up but my life is extremely time sensitive at the moment (unfortunatley).

I think the first step to getting going would be to check on the availability of the ingredients. If anyone is really serious about getting the exact flutamide gel that Sintov used in his 150 hair per centimeter2 experiments he will take this step. It is possible to form a co-op and get this done.

No risk, no gain.

Also from here on out I will only be posting flutamide related information on the general forum so that I don't offend many of the regulars of this group.

JB

Making a Flutamide Formula - espec. to tk421 or JB

From: Uno
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 05:33:05
Remote Name: 62.180.198.130

Comments

Although this flutamide gel thing sounds good to me I have two questions (not meaning to put anybody down because believe me I am as impatiently as everybody else on this forum awaiting any REAL solution - other than Minoxidil or Proscar - that brings us back our hair): 1) How do you expect to get PURE flutamide ? Because crushing the tablets means you have 250mg per tablet mixed with other things (like maybe cellulose or similar stuff) that might irritate your skin or even do harm when absorbed. I haven't read Sintov's Gel patent yet but I guess it describes a formula mixed with a certain percentage/weight of flutamide. If now you put into your gel formula:

250mg Flut PLUS an unknown amount (say 500mg or maybe even more) of "filling stuff" that was used to form a tablet you may not get a gel but a hard stuff. But maybe I have missed some discussion here (though I usually read almost every post) where you have either described a way to get the pure Flutamide out of the crushed pills or you may have found a source (be it a drug company on the internet or maybe your doctor, tk421) to get the pure flutamide from.

2) As I said I haven't read Sintov's patent yet and read just the abstract of his studies on pubmed where nothing is said about systemic effects or the exclusion of them. However if you go to pubmed (that is: yahoo, type in pubmed, choose pubmed and then search for "topical and flutamide") you will find another study back from 1995 that clearly mentions remarkable systemic effects both with TOPICAL flutamide and finasteride. Please let me know what you think of this or if maybe Sintov excludes sytemic effects with his formula. Thank you Cheers Uno

P.S. I try to give you the direct link to the second study, don't know if it works though: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=
PubMed&list_uids=7594643&dopt=Abstract.

If it doesn't work, go to pub med, do the search as described and look for the 5th result, it is by Chen C., Puy LA, et allii: Local and systemic reduction by topical finasteride or flutamide of hamster flamk organ size and enzyme activity

Re: Making a Flutamide Formula - espec. to tk421 or JB

From: tk421
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 12:40:51
Remote Name: 132.216.80.8

Comments

That is the idea behind the gel that Sintov invented. It avoids systemic effect and enables deeper penetration of the flutamide in the skin. There is no way you will regrow hair without the gel, because the flutamide will not stay in place, and diffuse through your body.

FLUTAMIDE WILL GROW A FULL HEAD OF..............

From: tk421
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 13:05:26
Remote Name: 132.216.80.8

Comments

........vellus hairs???????

Look at the graphs carefully. They clearly indicate that the lenght of the hairs is about 1.5 micron. This is REALLY small. Note that the finasteride grows 100 hairs/cm2. How can topical finasteride grow more hair than oral finasteride? Well, by lenghtening the life of the drug in the skin, it will surely be more effective. But that doesn't explain how finasteride can grow 100 hairs/cm2! This is most probably because we are talking about vellus hairs, not terminal hairs. So is flutamide another disapointment?

No, for the following reasons. First of all, flutamide can grow vellus hairs on a shiny bald patient, so it seems. This is spectacular in itself, and COULD POTENTIALLY IMPROVE THE MAX DENSITY THAT CAN BE OBTAINED THRU HM!! A lot of people have reported that HM does not work on shiny bald areas. well, with flutamide this could no longer be a problem. But why would Sintov deposit a patent to grow vellus hairs?

I knew it!! He didn't reveal the REAL formula. Read the patent carefully. It states clearly that the two solutions described are just examples, not the final solutions! Note that the concentration of flutamide in the solution is only 1%, much less than the maximum 10%. This is not the real McKoy. It seems like Sintov made some bogus solutions just to get some results, get the patent, as a way of securing the rights to an invention which is not yet finalized. Remember that there was a mention of a solution containing a mixture of flutamide and finasteride.

We know that flutamide has the potential of regrowing our lost hair. Just look at maneless. Still, I think that we will have no choice but to cooperate with Dr Sintov as to find the way to increase the concentration of flutamide in the gel, so we can grow more than vellus hairs. Also, the patent mentions the addition of a penetration enhancer. Does anybody know if it is included in the list of ingredients of the two solutions?

This will be tricky. Still, I suggest that we first stick to the first solution as it is described in the patent, and see what we can get from that. It shouldn't be hard to cook. Still, we will need some pure flutamide. Where do we get that?

We have to do this scientifically. I am afraid that some folks out there will try to make their own solutions, or even swallow the pill, like maneless did. Let's all be patient and take the positive and scientific route. Only time will tell if we can really grow terminal hairs with the formulation that we already know. Take care,

tk421

Re: FLUTAMIDE WILL GROW A FULL HEAD OF..............

From:
Date: 19 Nov 2000
Time: 16:39:58
Remote Name: 63.10.229.215

Comments

The general forum is screwed up so I will post here until it is fixed.

Sintov stated to Pavlo, "Grafts were taken from the scalp of an almost totally bald person they were implanden on amouse and a flutamide +the gel was applied to this grafts the result was 150 hairs/cm in regular quality (width etc..)."

The 150 hairs per cm2 cited on the website are measured in the same units as they are in the patent, but the patent uses hairs for graft. All the other charts are exactly the same. So the given density is simply extrapolation at work.

Pavlo should ask Sintov about our understanding of the chart measurements conflicting with Sintov's description of "regular quality". Perhaps the hairs were measured by a process that we don't understand. If you look at the charts you will see that the hairs were eight times as wide as they were long. This is not the description of a vellous hair.

Here is what the patent says about the formula given:

"The invention will now be described in connection with certain PREFERRED embodiments in the following examples and with reference to the following figures".

The patent is written to include a broad scope of formulas (to protect his patent) but the formula given is an example of the PREFERRED formula.

If you go to DOW chemical's website and start an account (free) you can download (PDF) any info on their chemicals that you want. Then read in the patent (and Sintov's website) where it talks about how the invention works and what is needed and you will find that the PREFERRED EMBODIMENT is good to go. It produces a gel that forms a film that is what you want. Look on the website where the drug absorbtion of the gel is compared to the absorbtion of alcohol. They are about the same. What you need is the ingredients in the preferred embodiment to make up the difference in skin retention properties.

JB

Contact Dr. Sintov II

From: Pavlo
Date: 20 Nov 2000
Time: 11:36:11
Remote Name: 62.0.72.214

Comments

Hi Today i have contact Dr. Sintov again i gave him tjhe office phone number of mr. yoram titz which is the israeli number 1 expert (not jokking) in money raising.I have also spoken to titz yesterday and told himanout Sintov he was very intersted but wanted to hear things from Sintov himself,I have agreed to speak with sintov next week. As for your questions the mice body didnt reject the human grafts since the mice thAT are used doesnt have immune system,so they are used to preform such kind of experiments i know about an expirement regarding skin aging that was performed by sintovs associate Dr. Gilhar which was performed in the same technique. The disadvantage of these mice is that they should kept isolated cause lack of immune system renders the volnerable to infactions even though they dont live more than afew months ,this maybe answers the second question i belive that the hair grew after not more than 2 months (can be much less) but i will ask sintov this question next week. As for making the gel in private this gel can be toxic and anyone who will use it on his own can suffer avery severe side effects . I am trying to move things forward and to help sintov build a stsrt up that will perform trhe neccessary experiments and will bring this gel to th market (if it is workin ASAP) Bye

Re: Then show us the formula of this gel

From: James Bond
Date: 22 Nov 2000
Time: 18:05:32
Remote Name: 63.10.234.60

Comments

It has been posted up once before. I will post it again. Here it is in its most basic form. All numbers are percentage by weight.

Flutamide = 1% (I would put this as a minimum starting dose).

Ethanol = 30%

Propylene Glycol = 24%

Glycerine = 3%

Arlacel 186 = 1% (glyceryl mono and di-oleate)

Methocel E15-LV = 4% (Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose)

Distilled Water = q.s.

(All ingredients are medical grade)

JB

Flutamide Solution 1% Check it out Please.

From:
Date: 24 Nov 2000
Time: 20:39:26
Remote Name: 208.246.218.22

Comments

OK, I want to make a 1% solution As per the Patent, and I just want to make sure this is correct. I'm going to make a 2oz formula(60ml) Basically I need to have 56.7 grams of solution to .567 grams of Flutamide to make a 1% solution, does this sound correct? Thanks for the help. I'm using Dermavan for the carrier and the Flutamide is being dissolved in Ethyl alcohol which it does nicely. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks again

Re: Flutamide Solution 1% Check it out Please.

From: maneless
Date: 25 Nov 2000
Time: 06:01:49
Remote Name: 64.12.105.156

Comments

I'm not really not trying to be rude to you but what you are doing is ridiculous. You need the exact same gel and formulation that the Israeli doctor used - it has to be the exact same.

If it's not the exact same then the flutamide molecule may not permeate the skin of the scalp and get to the follicle or it may get to the follicle but also deeper into the body and cause side affects. .

You are not making this gel as the Israeli doctor did and yet you are expecting the same results. Your logic is surreal. Think about what you're doing.

You want to make this stuff the exact same as the Israeli doctor made it if you want the same results. Why can't you understand that? You have no chance of getting this stuff into the right part of the hair follicle in the right concentration and doing what it's supposed to do without getting into the rest of the body unless you make this stuff the exact same way that the Israeli doctor did.

The Formula Again

From: The formula of Dr. Sintov`s flutamide-gel again:
Date: 25 Nov 2000
Time: 16:30:23
Remote Name: 62.227.30.184

Comments

James Bond has posted the formula of the gel. I think every proffessional chemist or pharmacist can make exact the same gel.

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/bnsviewer?CY=
wo&LG=en&DB=EPD&PN=9962464&ID=WO+++9962464A1+I+

Here it is in its most basic form. All numbers are percentage by weight.

Flutamide = 1% (I would put this as a minimum starting dose).

Ethanol = 30%

Propylene Glycol = 24%

Glycerine = 3%

Arlacel 186 = 1% (glyceryl mono and di-oleate)

Methocel E15-LV = 4% (Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose)

Distilled Water = q.s.

The Formula Again

From: maneless
Date: 25 Nov 2000
Time: 18:27:55
Remote Name: 205.188.199.38

Comments

I've been advised that there is some question as to whether or not this is the exact same formulation that he used in the study that worked. Just to answer all these questions I suggest that we get ahold of all of this drs. journal articles and see if there is any helpful information inside. The very article that was first brought to this forum may have not been a complete article but rather may have only been a condensed version of an article/study. The complete version may include the details/ingredients of how to make this gel in exact accordance with how the good Israeli doctor made it.

From the full-text of Sintov paper- making the gel

From: MJ
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 16:15:05
Remote Name: 192.11.226.104

Comments

In the Materials & Methods section of Sintov's paper, he briefly describes how to formulate his gel. Here's how it goes:

-The gel will consist of (by weight) 1% flutamide, 1% glyceryl oleate, 4% hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, 30% ethyl alcohol, and the rest distilled water, so measure out the appropriate amount of each depending on how much gel you want.

-Dissolve the flutamide in the ethyl alcohol. There is no mention of heating the solution at all, which I take to mean that the drug readily dissolves in the alcohol at room temp.

-While mixing the solution, gradually add the glyceryl oleate and distilled water. Mix until solution is uniform.

-Finally, add hydroxypropyl methylcellulose to gel the solution.

-Believe it or not, you're done.

Frankly, I see no need to pay anyone to compound this solution for us- this is about as straightforward a synthesis as you're ever likely to see, and so there's no reason not to just go ahead and whip it up in the kitchen. All of these substances are non-toxic, so there's very little risk involved.

I'd advise everyone to experiment with the amount of methycellulose in the gel so as to get the desired consistency, which will likely vary from person to person. The methylcellulose is only included to gel the solution, so there's some room for variation there. The key ingredient is the glyceryl oleate, which allows similar percutaneous penetration to a 50% water, 50% alcohol solution, yet increases the "holding time" for the flutamide in the skin. Neat trick, I think. I'd also suggest adding a bit of BHT to the solution to reduce potential oxidation. -MJ

MJ  We Need that full text of the doctor's study

From: maneless
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 16:28:31
Remote Name: 152.163.205.76

Comments

MJ,

This is what I was talking about. If you look over my past posts you will see that I mention a "materials and methods" section that should be in the long version of the article but it will not the abstract. The abstract is a condensed version of the study, and the abstract won't give the "materials and methods" section.

We need to get the full journal article that you have plus the patent so we can put both documents (the full journal article AND the patent) together and get all this information to Dr. Lee and Community Drug.

What you have - the complete journal article in combination with the patent, may be enough information to enable them to make this stuff. But we do not want to make this ourselves. Flutamide can be dangerous so I say we turn it over to the professionals to do it for us.

Can you do me a favor and post the acual "materials and methods" section right from the article so I can look it over please. I want to be sure of exactly what it says. These researchers can put kind of tricky stuff in there so please post that section of the complete article so I can see it.

Re: MJ  We Need that full text of the doctor's study

From: MJ
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 17:22:03
Remote Name: 192.11.226.101

Comments

I've got a PDF of the article, so I can email it to you if you wish. The Methods section is pretty much identical to what I posted, but you may find the rest of the article interesting too. BTW, Sintov has another article on using glyceryl oleate as a penetration enhancer, but I was unable to get a PDF of it. I'll have to wait til I return to school at Christmas and hit the Med library for a hard copy. I'll be sure to post any relevant info provided someone else doesn't beat me to it. -MJ

Re: From the full-text of Sintov paper- making the gel

From: william to manless and all read flutamide info
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 23:08:24
Remote Name: 202.123.132.109

Comments

I HAVE ALSO BEEN IN CONTACT WITH COMMUNITY DRUG GUYS AND I ASKED THEM WHAT WE ARE ALL ASKING. IS YOUR GEL THE SAME COMPOUND AS THE DR. STINSOV'S AND ARE YOU CRUSHING THE TABLETS OR IS IT A POWDER FORM FROM THE GET GO.THEY ARE GOOD IN REPLYING BACK RIGHT AWAY THESE GUYS ARE SO HELPFUL.YES THEY WILL MAKE THE GEL AND YES YOU MUST HAVE A PERSCRIPTION IT COST $69.00 FOR I THINK 60 GRAMS SOMETHING LIKE THAT I MIGHT BE WRONG ON THE QUANITY BUT NOT THE PRICE.I CANT WAIT HOPE IT IS GOOD INFO AND I THINK THEY PROMISE ABOUT THE SIDE AFFECTS.I SHOULD HAVE A REPLY BACK TOMMORO AND I WILL POST RIGHT AWAY.WILLIAM

Flutamide Gel - communitydrug.com (please read)

From: Austin F.
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 07:11:04
Remote Name: 207.206.211.209

Comments

I talked to the pharmacist and he said he is making the formula according to the instructions in Sintov's paper (posted above). I got a prescription and I am ordering a 3 month supply. He also said do not take it orally whatever you do. My suggestion is for people to go to their doctor and ask for a prescription in a matter of fact tone. If he asks you what it's for, tell him it's a new hair loss drug that a pharmacy is making and is very effective. Also tell him it is safe (no systemic effects). You may want to bring Sintov's research with you just in case. If this doesn't work, go to another doctor. I hope this helps.

Re: Flutamide Gel - communitydrug.com (please read)

From: maneless  To Austin F
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 08:28:31
Remote Name: 198.106.165.142

Comments

Austin F,

There is some issue involved concerning the right of flutamide to use. I don't know if Sintov merely used crushed flutamide pills or not. If he did then I think Community drug can make this gel exactly as Sintov did, but if Sintov used some base/unprocessed/raw ofrm of flutamide that one can only get vai being a "professional" of some sort and going to a certain kind of chemical company, then the batch that community drug is making you might not work unless Community drug gets the same form of flutamide. Flutamide pills, unfortunately, have addatives, and lots of them, which are not in the base/raw/ unprocessed form of flutamide. The additives could screw up the formulation.

We need to find out what form of flutamide Sintov used, and we need to try to get the same form of flutamide because that's the form that worked.

Re: Flutamide Gel - communitydrug.com (please read)

From: Austin F.
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 08:49:50
Remote Name: 207.206.211.209

Comments

As my post below indicates, the pharmacist as communitydrug.com said there should be no difference between the base flutamide and the pill disolving method. The Flutamide pills have a little lactose and other minor non-active ingredients. One thing is for sure, the Flutamide pills have Flutamide and the gel is the vehicle to get them to the follicles to promote growth. I understand your concern, but I think the Flutamide base vs. Flutamide pills is a distinction without a difference. Feel free to disagree.

Sincerely,

Austin F.

Re: Flutamide Gel - communitydrug.com (please read)

From: maneless         AUSTIN F please read
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 12:14:37
Remote Name: 64.12.105.188

Comments

Austin,

Well since the community drug pharmacist is a professional he might be right. It's definitely worth a try to use the pills and we can always try to get some base form of flutamide later if crushed pills don't work. There is something else though that I wonder what your thoughts of this other thing is:

Flutamide and RU58841 are both the same types of drugs, but RU58841 is actually more potent, and flutamide is actually weaker. It takes more flutamide to do the same thing that less RU58841 does.

The recommended dose of RU58841 is 5% and that is based on studies, but the study used only a 1% dose of the flutamide gel. I think you "might" want to consider increasing the flutamide dose to 5% when you have community drug make the flutamide gel for you. What do you think?

I would want a higher dose of the flutamide since I know that flutamide is weaker than RU58841 and it takes a 5% dose of RU58841 to grow hair.

Flutamide Gel - Base Flutamide vs. Pills (Talked to communitydrug.com)

From: Austin F.
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 08:12:35
Remote Name: 207.206.211.209

Comments

The pharmacist said that he doubts Sintov used Flutamide in base form. Further, he said the pills only have the additions of lactose and other minor non-active ingredients and that the effect of crushing the pill vs. pure flutamide are the same. He said there is no medical or chemical reason why it should not act the same even if Sintov used the base form of flutamide (again, which he thinks he did not). I think some of you are making a mountain out of a molehill. That's not a shot at anybody (including my good friend Maneless), but take a deep breath and use common sense. Why would there be any difference? Hope this helps.

Austin F.

GOT THE FLUTAMIDE GEL TODAY

From: Austin F.
Date: 04 Dec 2000
Time: 07:48:28
Remote Name: 207.206.211.209

Comments

It looks like a cream rather than like hair gel. It says to apply twice a day. Here we go!!

        
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